Looking Back; An Interview with Gavin Van Vlack

Shortly after attending the very disappointing opening night of the movie 

"American Hardcore" I set out to interview a number of people who, for me, helped define my experience on the NYHC scene during my early years. I found the movie had almost completely omitted the stories of those that participated in what was happening musically in New York City. That could have come down to the time frame covered or perhaps the writers own experience. Whatever the case, I felt I needed to seek out some of the characters whose music and mere presence helped to shape this wide eyed kid to here their personal stories and feelings on that very formidable time.  One afternoon I arranged to meet Gavin at Five Points Fitness where was a trainer on Broadway off of Canal street. As I sat and waited I gazed at the television which was playing a video of some of the East Asian kickboxing matches. As I gazed at the pictures and profiles of the trainers I began to question my decisions to meet this somewhat intimidating character from my past. Within a few minutes Gavin emerged from the back room. He smiled and extended his hand 

“James Unite, how are you?” Whatever trepidation or insecurity I may have felt quickly faded from my consciousness. I found him to be a very warm, mindful person with a quick wit and sense of humor. Amongst the sound of gym members pounding heavy bags and workout music blaring in the background I got to know the person who's riffs helped shape my taste in music. Gavin's band Absolution are currently in the studio working on a new record. Hopefully, we'll be getting a taste of what's to come soon. Until then... James Damion

James: What kind of musical background did you have prior to being involved with Hardcore?

Gavin: I was brought up on a lot of Classical and Jazz. Artists like Miles Davis,
Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery and a lot of artists like that. I was also brought up on a lot of Classical.

James: That’s interesting considering how raw an art form Hardcore is. Coming from that musical background it’s hard to see how this music would gel for you.

Gavin: Well, the whole thing with music is the feeling and the color of it. If you listen to a lot of the music today. There are so many symphonic sounding riffs. If you listen to any cello parts or strings in classical music. It is really raw and jagged. The great thing about  Jazz or the Blues is that it’s raw. It came from the heart.  Not like say Kenny G. A lot of people tell me “Gavin, you’re just old and jaded” But to me a lot of today’s Hardcore is sort of what Kenny G is to Jazz. It’s like watching kids play with dolls.

James: What were some of the bands that got you going to shows and the elements that drew you to Hardcore?

Gavin: At the time you just had to be down with the Cro-mags.  It was like if you weren’t down with them you weren’t going to live to long. Of course there were the Bad Brains and Antidote. Bands that were just so heavy like Damage and Cause for Alarm. We were all just misfits who kind of fit in.
After a while it took on a sort of “Lord of the Flies” likeness. I think it was also that a lot of us came from a background where we didn’t really have a family module. But sometimes people look at it like it was just all these street kids. Mark Ryan from Supertouch was this suburban kid who at 13 years old was taking the train into the city to hang out. It was because he wasn’t satisfied with what his home town gave him. People always talk about the city kids but there were a lot of people like Mark. Jimmy G. was more of a city kid from Queens but there were others like Robbie Crypt Crash and Keith Burkhardt from
Cause for Alarm. They were people who gravitated towards the city.

James: Tell me about the NY Hoods. They were somewhat of a launching point for me.
One of the bands I started seeing early on.

Gavin: I was homeless and working the door for this topless strip bar. My only skill was really being a musician. I was working at this nightclub and I remember seeing this flyer. Band looking for guitarist. I said to myself “Fuck it. A gig’s a gig.” So I jumped in to it. It was great for what it was. There were definitely a difference in musical opinions and we wanted things to go. They were a lot more straight forward with what they wanted to do. They were like a lot of Queens bands. They had that rock edge. Kind of the way Token Entry was. That was the Queens style. They were just a little more conservative in the way they went about things. Myself, I was a lot more reckless. I was a lot more experimental. It was the way I lived.

James: At one point in time there was supposed to be a split album with the band Krakdown. How did you guys become friends with them?

Gavin: The guys from Krakdown were good friends of mine. We hung out and went to shows together. Me and Jay had the same attitude “Don’t cross us.” We were just kids trying to prove ourselves. The Krakdown guys knew the Hoods because Bobby’s brother played in Token Entry. So we were all in this community together. The guys from the NY Hoods ended up putting out an EP that was out for about a second. I don’t know what happened with the split. As for the Hoods. We still cross paths every now and then. I run into Kevin every now and then. Just out of the blue. I have no idea what Bobby is doing. I think Mike became a cop.

James: Were you in Side by Side at the same time as the NY Hoods?

Gavin: Yes, I was living with Billy from Side by Side. I was playing with both bands. I quit Side by Side out of loyalty to the Hoods. Then I got thrown out of the Hoods. After that I got into some legal problems that I don’t want to talk about.
I kind of left town for a while. While I was away there were a lot of people talking shit about me. The whole time I was gone there was one person who had my back the whole time was Jules from Side by Side.
He went up against some people who at the time were pretty big figureheads in the Hardcore Scene. Because I wasn’t around I was easy to blame for a lot of shit that had gone down. When I came back about five months later everything had changed so much. That’s when I started Absolution.
 
James: Back then you had a reputation as a tough guy. Someone who would kick your teeth in if you looked at him wrong. Was that image more perceived or was that reality?

Gavin: It was very real at the time. I am very much an iconoclast. I don’t like pack mentalities. If I see five guys fucking with a kid. I am going to fuck with them.

James: There were certain people back then that you just knew to stay clear of. You were one of those people who looked like he was going to kick someone’s ass even when you were smiling. I talk to you now and I see a different person.

Gavin: A lot of it is size. I’ve seen guys like John Joseph take out three guys twice his size. I’ve seen Harley take on guys way bigger than him. Richie Birkenhead who no one would think of. I’ve seen Richie bring people to the brink of death. He’s one of those ultimate nice guys. But if you cross him. You better watch out. He’s one of the nicest, most intellectual, open and honest people you’re ever going to meet.  Just don’t cross him. I’ve seen the bully’s and I’ve seen the tough guys. I had this personality where I’d be “okay, let’s go.”
But that was the 80’s and New York was a much different town. I was very much a different person.

James: We’re a few blocks away from the Lower East Side now. There’s no comparing the way it is now to the way it was in the early 80’s.

Gavin: The city that we live in is a city of ghosts.

James: What would you consider the pinnacle of New York Hardcore?

Gavin: For me it was 1985-1990. I say that knowing my time in Burn came after that.
But when I was in Burn I despised the Hardcore scene.

James: At the time did you feel that it was something that was going to last?

Gavin: I didn’t care. I was always the kind of guy that was interested in what was next.
I didn’t think it would last because I knew the people who were at the wheel were full of shit. There were people who were screaming about unity and not selling out. There was so much bullshit. When you get down to it...it’s music. How can someone criticize someone for making money from their art? There were also people who were trying to push their political agendas. There were a lot of people shouting “We’re about this.” Then I questioned “Well then, why do you do that?” There were just a lot of hypocrites. I think there was just a time when we thought we had it all down and we just didn’t. I think it’s unrealistic to think anything is going to last. To think that we’d be fifty years old and still doing that. It’s pretty pathetic. You just have to evolve. Stagnation is one of the worst things you can do.
That insanity of running in circles. That’s the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

James: There were a lot of outside elements that came into hardcore in the mid to late 80’s. Do you think any of them particularly led to the demise of that era?

Gavin: I think it was change. A lot of people can point to gangs but for me to say I am against gangs is to say I’m against kids organizing. You can say religion but there’s a very strong difference between Religion and Spirituality. Religion is for people who are afraid to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who’ve been there. As far as Metal goes.... Fuck, Hardcore came out of Metal. Music doesn’t discriminate. People are afraid of change. There always that “You don’t look like me.” attitude. Which everyone is guilty of. It sucks that someone like a skinhead would discriminate against someone because they have long hair. Or a punk would discriminate against a kid who was straightedge. It sucks. Music doesn’t discriminate. Listen to the Blues and you’ll see. People can talk about Skrewdriver but to me that’s not music. It’s idiots playing instruments.

James: We talked about bands all starting to sound the same. When I first heard Absolution I thought these guys sound different than anything coming out these days. It doesn’t even sound like anything I’ve ever heard. Was that something you were going for? Were you looking to break from the pack?

Gavin: Yes, absolutely. I was sick of Hardcore. I despised Hardcore. That was my vengeance against what had become so homogenous.
To me there was so much more to do. Someone once told me that Absolution and Burn were the cornerstones of Emo. (laughter erupts)

James: What the fuck? I’ve never heard anything close to that.

Gavin: When I think of Emo I think of Rites of Spring and Embrace. With Absolution I wanted something different. I’d been away from New York for so long. I came back and had gone to a couple of shows. I thought “What the Fuck happened? This sucks.” It was all Gray Champion sweatshirts. I wanted to take the energy from that and make something new.
I remember people saying that I was a great guitarist and TC3 (Tom Capone) was a great guitarist. I would point to Vic from Nausea and say “None of us could tie his fucking shoe laces.” Such a great guitarist and a really humble guy.

James: What led to the end of Absolution?

Gavin: I was an ass and i quit. I just didn’t like the direction the band was going in.
I was just on a lot of drugs.

James: How did drugs and alcohol effect your life.

Gavin: It works for a while. (laughs) it gave me a certain edge at that time in my life.
After a while it just stopped working for me. When I did the Die 116 Dynacool record, my God, there was so much cocaine and we were drinking like.......

James: Not a spiritual thing.

Gavin: (laughs) No, not at all. But that was the thing. We drank and we wrote music.
 That was it.

James: Did you feel you had to be angry or fucked up to write. Did you feel you had to draw from these dark experiences?

Gavin: It comes from different places but there’s something about dipping into depression to write a song. But there’s also that resolution that helps you dig yourself out of it. I definitely hit the bottom. I had to change my life. I moved to L.A. and I stopped drinking and started living better. I started doing the band Big Collapse. I was working as a trainer and I had lost everything. I needed a change. I needed to get my life together. Getting back to Absolution and Burn. I was just in a very dark time in my life. There was a time when I believed in the Hardcore scene. I just found out that it was all fucking lies. I was looking for the truth in all the wrong places. There was just so much dishonorable shit going on. So many people who were screwing each other over. What drove me away was not the idealism. It was the realization.

James: As an outsider looking in it seemed that you and Chaka had a very special friendship.

Gavin: We dealt with Burn on a business kind of relationship. We came to a point where we just didn’t want to deal with each other. There was a lot of tension between us. I ran into him on the street recently and I still felt that tension. I could never hate him but our relationship is like surviving a plane crash.

James: I talk to a lot of people who site Burn as their all time favorite Hardcore band. I listen to that first EP on a daily basis. It still moves me.
Gavin: Wow, that’s insane.

James: The band recently released two more EP’s. One containing new material. Is there a chance of a
Burn Discography?

Gavin: We’re working on that right now. There are going to be some early demos with the drummer from Life’s Blood and basically all the material we released. It’s in the works.
As for a reunion that would be up to me and Chaka if we wanted to play any shows. I get calls all the time about a reunion and it’s doable. Nothing these days is impossible. It would just come down to whether or not Chaka and I want to do it. Music is the closest way you can come to immortality.
Orson Well’s once said “there should be no artists,only their art.”. I would say that most people like my music because my music is much more clearer than I am. People ask about Burn a lot. We were just four kids trying to survive and not kill each other. We were always fighting and arguing but what mattered most was the music.

James: How did you become interested in Buddhism and how does it relate to what your doing now?

Gavin: It actually started with muay thai  kickboxing. It’s something i teach now. A friend of mine trained in Nepal. When he came back I trained with him. He was very much into the Buddhist culture. I started reading and it just made sense to me. It made sense out of absolute chaos. I try to make it a part of my life. I’m trying to leave as positive a footprint on people lives and on this world as possible. Utah Phillips said “we have all these rules, we have a constitution, we have all these religions. When it comes down to it there’s good and theirs bad. Good people don’t need it and bad people don’t pay attention to it. If you feel  like you shouldn’t be doing something. You probably shouldn’t.


James: Has Buddhism helped you deal with some of the demons from your past?

Gavin: it’s all about acceptance and solutions. If you can’t accept the problems and the pain in your life.  You better find a solution.

James: Are you more at peace with yourself now?

Gavin: Yes, I can say I am. I get annoyed at myself when I slip into old ways of thinking. Those are patterns of behavior. My life’s better than it’s ever been. I have this great work environment. I work in shorts and a tee shirt. The people I work with are awesome.
They're all great people who have been in the industry for a long time. This is not your average run of the mill gym.

James: Has your experience in Hardcore helped to shape you? Has it had an indelible effect on your life and the way you live it today?

Gavin: Absolutely, yes. I would not be the person I am today without it. It taught me a lot about life. I try to think I am a guy that can be relied on and trusted. There was a point in my life when I didn’t trust people. That was the way I got by. It took those experiences to shape me. Make me a better person.

Looking Back; An Interview with Rival Schools drummer Sammy Siegler

In following up on my decision to post some noteworthy interviews  from the vaults of 
Unite Fanzine. "Looking Back" hopes to be a continuing series on the blog so stay posted. James Damion

Since the age of twelve Sammy Siegler has built a resume as one of the most sought after drummers in music. During the 80's he played in just about every relevant Straightedge band. Side by Side, Gorilla Biscuits, Youth of Today, Judge, Project X and Civ all played to his beat at one time or another. By the 90's he was already a skilled, well traveled and sought after musician. He continued making great music with Rival Schools, Glassjaw, Nightmare of You and  Gabby Glaser. We sat down for coffee early one evening in the
East Village to talk about music and growing up Hardcore. Since this interview the band Rival Schools has resurfaced and released their album 'Pedals'.

James: Sammy, I don't know if you realize it but you are the first person who ever called me "James Unite".

Sammy: That's crazy!

James: What was your introduction to Hardcore?

Sammy: I would have to say the movie Suburbia. I had a friend, Matt Pincus (later played bass with Judge), who was a little bit older than me. I was 11 and I really looked up to him. Got introduced to the Sex Pistols and the Clash. .
My sister hooked me up with these two older guys who went to Stuyvesant High School.
They had a band. They were really nice guys who were into Punk, a little Reggae and Ska.
I thought I was this cool little bad ass kid. I was smoking weed and dropping acid. It was a really wild time. I grew up a few blocks from here on 15th street. I was just introduced to things at a young age. I became friends with this guy Dylan who turned out to be Walter Schriefels younger brother. He had this band called Gorilla Biscuits and they needed a drummer. I was like "cool, let's jam." I was a little bit scared. I didn't know all that much about that sort of stuff. We played together and it worked out. I ended up playing with them at the "Birth of Unity" show at the Right Track Inn on Long Island.
That was literally the birth of Unity. It was the birth of Hardcore for me.

James: Wow, that was actually my first show. I still have the flyer somewhere.

Sammy: There were so many good bands on that bill. I think I was maybe 12 years old.
I wasn't that great on drums. I was really into the music but I just wasn't great at playing that fast. From there it just happened. Walter and the guys from Gorilla Biscuits were tight with the guys from Youth of Today. Then I met Jules from Side by Side. I wasn't good enough to play for Gorilla Biscuits and they had gotten their old drummer Ernie from Token Entry back. So I went to play with Side by Side and things just kept evolving. So that was the initial introduction to Hardcore for me.

James: With the exception of Harley Flanagan you were the youngest kid to be playing in a band during that era. Was it hard for you to get into shows? How did you manage that?

Sammy: My parents were really supportive and cool. They would actually walk me down to CBGB's sometimes. The first road trip I did was to Buffalo with Side by Side. My mom gave me some extra money in case I had to take a bus home. Change for the phone. She was a little nervous but after that it was cool. You see they knew a lot of the guys I hung out with because they would always be at our apartment. Kind of like a clubhouse. It was a really cool vibe. Then around 1987 I started playing in Youth of Today. We played our first show together in Pennsylvania. Then the next week we flew out to the West Coast to do a tour with Instead, 7 Seconds, Uniform Choice. I was like "Oh my God." We were opening up for
7 Seconds at Fenders. I was a fan of Youth of Today and all of the sudden I was in the band.

James: Speaking of your family. I remember meeting your mom on the side of the stage of CBGB's during the Side by Side reunion. I thought, "How cool is this kids mom?"
It was the benefit show for Pete Koller of Sick of it All.

Sammy: The thing is they were all good people. Billy and Gavin from Side by Side would be over the house all the time. Those guys were like my brothers and my best friends. My mom saw that and she felt comfortable with it. Porcell was like a big brother to me in so many ways. She knew these people were looking out for me.

Another key thing for me when I was really young was the Rock Hotel shows which were at the Ritz. We lived on 14th street and the Ritz was on 11th street. My older sister who was sixteen when I was thirteen would take me. I got to see bands like GBH, Bad Brains and the Cro-mags.

James: You mentioned that at a very young age you were experimenting with drugs and alcohol.
How quickly before you got into being straightedge?

Sammy: Having these older friends that I looked up to. Telling me "hey, it's not all about drugs and getting fucked up." In time you just learn that it's smarter to take care of yourself. It's smarter to just be the best person you can be. It's a lot easier when you have friends like that. You have a support system. You have a crew. As I got older I just put a little more thought into it. It made a lot of sense. When you see all these people in your high school just doing stupid things. As things progressed I just felt better about myself and my decisions. In a way I do feel good that I had time to experiment.

James: I think it's good to know both sides of the coin. Most of the straightedge kids I knew experimented with drugs and alcohol at one point. The first person I ever smoked and got drunk with was Civ from Gorilla Biscuits.

You mentioned family earlier. How your friends were like family to you. From my own experience and from the experience of a lot of people I have talked to. People talk about New York Hardcore as family back then. Even now to some degree.

Sammy: The thing that stands out to me is Some Records on E. 6th St. Duane was running the place and to me it was like the clubhouse. That was where we would all meet. Right after school we'd go there. Pick up the new demo from whatever band, hang out and just basically loiter. Tompkins Square Park was right there. St. Marks was just around the corner.
Then the weekend shows at CBGB's. It was just amazing. Rabeez from Warzone would write these letters and hang them up at Some Records. "Hey, there's going to be a Hardcore softball game before the matinee." It's funny but it was like this after school program.
I remember Jordan (Revelation Records) and Ray Cappo talking about doing a yearbook.
So yes, it was like a family. There were some crazy people in that family. Dysfunctional yet functional.

James: The whole "Youth Crew" ideal gained popularity and was also scorned. There were a lot of pros and cons that came with it. What's your take on it?

Sammy: It definitely took on an elitist form. I agree that some of the backlash was warranted. All of the records started to look the same. The zines looked the same.
People started dressing the same. It became very much a clique'. Individuality kind of faded. Eventually it was the cause of a lot of people becoming disinterested in it. That being said, "All good things do come to an end," That was the rise and fall of my little world.

James: What was your first band?

Sammy: I had played in this little band Noise Space...My first show was with Gorilla Biscuits. I wasn't a good enough drummer though and Ernie was so good. I guess my first real band was Side by Side. I remember going into Don Fury's studio to record the song "Violence to Fade" for the Revelation "The Way it is" 7 inch.

James: It seems the band had a very short existence but the posthumous EP
 "Your Only Young Once" is a seminal New York Hardcore release.

Sammy: Time has a way of preserving things. When I look back at that time. Bands like Warzone, Underdog, Youth of Today and Token Entry were the top tier. Side by Side and even Gorilla Biscuits to a degree seemed smaller on that scale. So in a sense time creates that nostalgia. But at the time it didn't seem like we were up there with those bands. But it was awesome.
We recorded the whole thing in one day. It cost us just around six hundred dollars. It was just an awesome time. Side by Side were together between 86 and 87. Then I just started playing with Youth of Today.
Then we did that insane tour in 1988. Seven of us in a van just whipping around the country.

That was my first real tour. Then in the winter of 1989 we went to Europe. I missed about two months of high school. That was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. We're driving through Europe in a van playing squats. Straightedge wasn't happening over there.

James: I have the poster from that tour. I find it strange that you actually toured with
Lethal Aggression. A band whose beliefs and practices (i.e. heavy drug use) were the polar opposite of Youth of Today's. How did that work...or not work?

Sammy: That was totally fucking insane.
We were on Caroline Records in the U.S., which at the time was a big deal. Caroline licensed their records to Funhouse in Germany. Funhouse was affiliated with Lethal Aggression.
Someone thought it would be a great idea to pair up our bands for the tour. This guy out of Germany booked the tour. He had made all these horrible bootleg Youth of Today shirts and records. The records were this really ugly fluorescent yellow. He was a pretty corrupt dude. We didn't make any money from the shit they were selling. We got paid really poorly. The tour itself was exciting because there were such a mix of skinheads, punks and an occasional straightedge kid. I remember London was pretty happening. Germany was kind of scary though. I remember there were these Nazi Skinheads who were going to kill us.

James: Getting back to Lethal Aggression. Were you guys spending down time together and hanging out? It's just hard to picture.

Sammy: The first day we got to Europe we were staying at this guys house. Youth of Today was in one room. Lethal Aggression was staying in another. Just getting acclimated to being in Germany. They went out and picked up some really young schoolgirls and had a total drug, sex party in their room. I remember the singer coming out of his room all wasted and saying, "Yo, do you want to smell some good jam?" Referring to the girls smell on his fingers. (Laughter erupts at this time.).

You know the thing that a lot of people don't remember is the guys in Youth of Today were open to a lot of things. As long as you're nice a person. We were just open to a lot of different people.

James: You also toured Europe with Gorilla Biscuits.

Sammy: I think I was a replacement on the 89 tour.
I also was with them on the second tour in 91. It's interesting to see how things progressed. There were hardly any straightedge kids there when we did that first tour. By the time I had gone there with Gorilla Biscuits things had grown. That had happened with the whole world really.

James: It seemed like straightedge blew up almost over night.
The Lower East Side had always been this
drug-infested area. Even the Hardcore scene in NYC was never really a straightedge scene.
Then all of the sudden there's Youth of Today and all these kids with X's on their hands.
With that sudden explosion and the popularity that came along with it came a backlash.
I was interested in how you as someone who was affiliated directly with that scene felt.

Sammy: I think it sucks when things have to be that way. I think Gorilla Biscuits in a sense were geniuses that they were positioned in a way that everyone was into them whether they were straightedge or not. They were straightedge and proud of it but they were inclusive to everyone. There was a "We're all in this together" sort of mentality about them. Sick of it All were like that too. Not that they were straightedge. They were just cool in that respect.
I didn't think much about it but it just seemed so stupid.

James: You were in two bands (Judge and Project X) that seemed to be a reaction to that backlash straightedge received. You can also say these bands caused the backlash.

Sammy: It's almost like asking what came first the chicken or the egg. I was the drummer for all these bands. I was working and writing songs with people who had really strong feelings. Mike who had just been the drummer for Youth of Today had a lot of things on his mind. He had a lot of things to say and a lot of things he wanted to get off his chest. I think some of those lyrics were taken way literally. It's almost like what's happening in Hip Hop today. If you take everything so seriously. You tend to get lost. Looking back at Judge, we were like "Let's just do this pissed off, heavy straightedge Hardcore." "I've Lost" was a love song. "Forget this Time" was about his therapist. I think people looked at in way where maybe they just took it too far.

James: Judge were one of the truly great bands from that time and that genre. But you guys were really dark. In a sense the music's vibe sometimes brought a bad crowd to your shows. You were dealing with a lot of violent elements and attracting bikers. People acting out to what they felt the music meant. Did there come a point when you said, "This is just too much."?

Sammy: No, I really didn't. I just felt there were more cool kids than not. I felt there were more kids who actually got what we were about. Mike was a big, sweet guy. He was also a smart guy. Porcell was a nice guy. He was like a big brother; Matt was just this older friend.

James: There are so many musicians that have a history of being in a lot of bands.
You are no exception to that rule. The thing that makes your situation somewhat unique is that you were in a lot of bands at the same time. Did the constant touring, playing shows and recording ever feel like too much?

Sammy: There was definitely a time when it became more serious. I was playing with
Ian Love in a band called Lotus and we were on a five-day a week rehearsal schedule.
Then I was helping out another friend. That's when it became more of a career. Back then it was more or less for fun.

James: Have you been able to make a living as a drummer?

Sammy: Yes I have. With a lot of hustle and some luck. There are times when I'm working with a band and I'm doing a commercial. Then there's down time and dry spells.

James: Luke Abbey (Warzone, Gorilla Biscuits, Judge) was a contemporary of yours.
You both played in a lot of the same bands at different times. I know you were friends but was there also a lot of competition between the two of you?

Sammy: It was a healthy competition between us all. There was also Drew who played with BOLD at the time. We would see each other's bands at the Anthrax maybe once a month. We would all be like "He's so good. I have to get better." Luke was in a band called
Loud and Boisterous at one point.

I met him when I was 11. He was a little bit older, Maybe 12 or 13. I looked up to these people. I looked up to Mackie from the Cro-mags. Alan Cage (Beyond, Burn, Quicksand) was a talented drummer. Petey Hines (Murphy's Law, Cro-mags) ultimately.

James: What do you feel were some of the causes of the decline of New York Hardcore in the early part of the 90's?

Sammy: It was much cooler when all those bands were playing together. It was a lot cooler when all the kids went to the same shows. It was a lot cooler when you could see skinheads, punks and straightedge kids hanging out together. Warzone and Nausea playing on the same bill. The melting pot aspect so much more appealing. When things got segregated and things got violent. It started to disintegrate. If you were not a violent person why would you want to be involved with something like that? When you have new kids in the scene who are more into the gang aspect of it your going to have problems. That's not what Hardcore is about.

James: Civ came along and breathed some new life into Hardcore. They were Hardcore with a bit of style thrown in. They were something different. Yet, you guys got a lot of flack from what you would call purists.

Sammy: I think that happens with anything that's different. People don't always embrace change. The same thing happened with Quicksand. People were saying Civ's not like
Gorilla Biscuits. Quicksand's not like Gorilla Biscuits. Into Another wasn't like Underdog. It's kind of unfortunate that people are afraid of change.

James: The second Civ record "Thirteen Day Getaway" didn't do well at all. A lot of people just didn't take to it. I myself included. I felt like I was hearing an entirely different band.

Sammy: I can't say I'm not proud of that record. It was really a lot of fun doing. Walter was a big part of the first record. He wasn't involved with the second one at all. It was just a crazy time. We had a lot of fun though. We toured with No Doubt. We were on a major label.
I think the record was really over produced.

I remember we played our last show in Okinawa in Japan. Then I flew to Spain for this crazy Youth of Today reunion at this festival. We played with Metallica and The Black Crowe's. Some guy paid us an awful lot of cash to do it. May mom, dad and sister came to meet me. It was a great time. It was great to see the guys from Youth of Today. Then I cam back home and got into

James: You mentioned Walter Shriefels.
You were in a lot of bands together. Rival Schools was one of the later ones. Can you tell me a little about that experience?

Sammy: That was five years of my life. It seemed like such a short time though. We recorded and EP, a split EP and a full length. We also toured. At one point Walter just pulled the plug on it. I think we were just at a point where it wasn't working anymore. He sort of lost the fire. It was a disappointment for me and the other guys. It would have been cool to make a second full length. I think it's easy for a lot of band members to make that first record. Your making music with friends and there's this magic, there's a concept, an idea.
"Let's do a project. It kinda sounds like this, it kinda sounds like that. Let's do it. You write ten songs, you write fifteen songs. You write an album. Let's do it. Let's play a bunch of shows."
Then that magic starts to drift a little bit.

James: Does it become routine?

Sammy: I think part of it is the major label system. Then there's touring constantly.
Which is how they sell records. Playing the same songs night after night you can lose the fire sometimes.

James: There was a time during the New York Hardcore scene where people we either on tour, dropping out, in jail or just plain missing in action. When you don't see people around you start to hear rumors. One of the strangest rumors I'd heard was about you playing in a band called Warrior Soul.

Sammy: It's true. I've definitely had some weird sidetracks in my life. I think I was playing in Shelter at the time. We were recording at Don Fury's studio. Don knew some guys from this band called Warrior Soul. They had just been signed to Geffen and were this Guns 'N' Roses type of rock band. They needed a drummer and they were making a video. They asked me if I wanted to be in it. So I was in the video and then another video came and another.
So according to them I was in the band. Then at one point I was in the band.

In the end they wanted someone older, bigger and more buff. The thing is as long as I can remember I've always been into diversity. In 1991 after the Gorilla Biscuits tour I was in a band called 22 Tribes. I did some work with Limp Bizkit. Being a drummer is a weird thing. There are always opportunities because bands need drummers. It's great because I like to travel. I'm into different things.

James: Tell me about your recent band Nightmare of You.

Sammy: The new single is almost out. I think it's really good. We're going out with Movielife for two weeks. Rival Schools was on the way to breaking up and I started talking to
Joe Mc Caffrey. Wrote a bunch of songs and started recording. The influences lean a lot towards British acts like the Jam, Buzzcocks, Elvis Costello and a little Squeeze.

James: You're also working with Gabby Glaser (former Luscious Jackson guitarist/singer)

Sammy: Gabby is just a really sweet, sweet girl. She's a great singer but she' very shy for some reason. We started working together writing songs but I just think she needed someone to kind of pull them out of her a little bit. That's one of my favorite things, working with a singer/songwriter. They come in with good songs and I just get to tweak and develop them a little bit. I got my friend Guyora, who is an amazing musician, to play bass. Then we got Ian Love from Rival Schools to play guitar. We recorded all the songs for the album "Gimme Splash" which just came out this June. It's a really cool record. Kind of Rock meets Garage.

It's just really a good record. I was never really into Luscious Jackson but I love Gabby and I love her vocals.

James: Looking back on your experiences do you think Hardcore helped to shape you as not only a musician but as a person?

Sammy: Absolutely, 100% Yes. I don't think I would have ever gotten to travel or see the world like I have. We were in East Germany before the wall came down. We played in Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Spain. We were just young kids out there doing it.

We were getting to learn and understand people's dynamics and cultures. The Youth of Today album wasn't so much of a straightedge album as it was an album about life. Songs like "Potential Friends", those lyrics still mean so much to me. I got to meet and travel the world. Those experiences will be with me for the rest of my life.

James: Is there any one band that stuck with you more than others?

Sammy: Altercation was that band. A great hardcore band that's often overlooked. I wouldn't say they missed the boat. I think people missed the boat on them. They had this sick, yet amazing energy. Then there was Youth of Today. I was a fan of Youth of Today before I was in the band. "Break Down the Walls" Was such a great record and one that really struck a chord with me.

Rival Schools Official

N.Y. Hoods - "Neutral Demo" 7 inch Re-Issue

Classic NYHC demo from 1986 finally gets a very deserving and long over due vinyl treatment from Urban Riot Records.
The vinyl version features
N.Y. Hoods - Neutral demo in all its glory. The six song demo has been remixed and remastered for great sound quality. 100 pressed on
white vinyl, 100 pressed on splatter vinyl and 300 on traditional black. The NY Hoods were one of many excellent bands that occupied the NYHC scene of the mid eighties.
The Queens band were contemporaries of classic NYHC bands such as
Gorilla Biscuits, Token Entry, Krakdown. The N.Y Hoods also featured bassist
Gavin Van Vlack who would go on to help form and play with Side By Side, Absolution and Burn. (Just to name a few) Needless to say this is an important document of a pivotal time in New York's colorful music history.
Slap this on your turntable and you'll be singing the chorus to "Mirrors of Reality" and
"Poor Girl" in no time. James Damion


United Riot Records/Big Cartel  Order Here

United Riot Records to re-issue NY Hoods '86 Demo

For the first time ever on vinyl will be the official release of the NY Hoods' demo, remixed and remastered. Due out in late February the 7" will have 5 songs. Limited edition of just 500 pressed with 100 white, 100 splatter and 300 on black vinyl. The first 300 will come with a digital download card. Members of NY Hoods went on to play in Side By Side, Absolution, and Burn.

On February 20th a new label called Under Watchful Eyes with the help of United Riot Records will be releasing the Strong Island Boot Boys "Pitbull Breed" 7". The 5 song 7" features members of Offensive Weapon and Fed Up! and this release will be out on red, white, and blue vinyl.

United Riot Records  Get it here